Featured Post

Where Does My Tithe Money Go? (Kelly takes a vacation)

When you give to a church it's usually understood that the money goes to support the church's finances and keep it running.  Being a...

Tuesday, May 27, 2014

A challenge for Kelly Dykstra

I took a little time off from this blog as I was in a new adventure in my life which involved quite a bit of Buddhist readings.  I contemplated karma and the possibility, if it's even true, of something coming back to me for calling out The Crossing Church on their abusive and flat out ridiculous behaviors.  I decided, that even with my snarkiness, that since I only spoke truth that any karma would be good karma.  That said, I'd still considered stopping.  I considered walking away.  I tried.  And then this nonsense came up:


Wow, Kelly! 

A quote from her latest sermon - Minute 14:35 - she began praying for these shoes because "Why not? God likes me!"

Comments from Stuff Christian Culture Likes about this instagram post:

"my problem is that she's making a distinct effort to show them off with the hashtag #jesuslovesme, as if to rub it in the face of someone who can barely afford Payless. Does Jesus not love them then? "
"It feeds the lie that the size of a person's pocketbook somehow proves the measure of God's love for them."

"Forget the shoes... the message she is sending is so repulsive. So what do you tell the child praying that his mother is healed from cancer, or the family praying for a job so they can feed their kids or the wife in an abusive relationship? Based on her message she would say that God must not like them enough to solve their problems. She must have a nice life that wanting a pair of pricy shoes is her biggest "problem" and thankfully God loves her enough. Oh this story is so ridiculous. Who cares what her friend spent on the shoes, but the fact that this person spent time thinking and praying about buying her the shoes... I wish people could focus their energy on what really matters. I guess if God really liked me he would not have let my Mom die 4 years ago and wouldn't have given my Dad Stage IV lung cancer in the fall...#awfultheologyshouldntbeallowedtopreach"

"She could have fed two families for a month for the price of the cheapest Louboutins. I guess Jesus doesn't love hungry people."

"Yo Haters - this is what Jesus wants! She gets to have insanely expensive shoes because she's blessed. She's obviously tithing hard, doing shit right and in God's favor." - This one is mine. ;-)
So God gives you incredibly expensive designer shoes (Low end price of over $1000), you pastor a church of primarily blue collar, semi-rural people who shop at Wal-Mart and clip coupons, and you think it's a good thing to flaunt this?!


 Lets get back to that sermon: Minute 16:13 - A friend knew she wanted the shoes and bought them for her. "Her friend paid the price for the shoes like Jesus paid the price for our sins."  
No.  Just no.  You make it known you want these shoes, have the audacity to pray for them, and then compare your rich friend (I'm guessing Lisa Young or Lisa Cornelius) shelling out a few bucks to feed your desire for the good life to Jesus dying for the sins of the world!?!?  When I heard the sermon and the words "my friend paid the price for these shoes..." I thought "Of all that is holy please do not tell me she's going to compare this to the cross.  I'm agnostic and still find this horrendous!!
As my good friend said, "The only people that should be bragging about God giving them new shoes are the people who didn't have shoes in the first place!"
So here is your challenge Kelly: give up the shoes for the good of those without shoes.  Put them up for auction, sell them, you pick - but give them up.  Give them up just as you and your husband have asked others to give things (very specifically shoes in fact) up.  Prove you are the exemplary Christian you claim to be.  Prove my post about your use of tithe money was wrong.  Prove you care more about people than things.  Prove it.

Pretty sure this is what Jesus would do, right?

14 comments:

crossingchurchguy said...

So the one swearing on instagram and reading Buddhist writings doesn't like the way a Christian is being a Christian? That's rich.

How's shouting into your echo chamber working out for you?

Back Alley said...

Swearing on Instagram? I think you have me mixed up with someone else but if they were swearing about how contradictory it is to flaunt those shoes and claim Christ, then I'm all for every fucking word they said.

So the one criticizing someone who is criticizing a douchebag mentions an echo chamber? That's rich.

Keep on tithing crossingchurchguy...I'm sure your "pastors" need a new car/house/boat/vacation. $$$$$

Reign Scent said...

crossingchurchguy uses the Ad Hominem to deflect from the topic. The definition of "Ad Hominem: attacking the person instead of attacking his argument. A common form is an attack on sincerity. For example, "How can you argue for vegetarianism when you wear leather shoes ?"
Rather than address and defend the facts of what's actually being stated in your article, you are attacked. Unfortunately this is usually the types of responses and replies one get when one tries to point out error. Hopefully some will be helped by what you have blogged. Keeping you in prayer.

crossingchurchguy said...

Reign Scent,

"How can you argue for vegetarianism when you wear leather shoes?" is indeed an Ad Hominem fallacy. The point I was building toward with my post (and I'll admit it was to brief/vague and comes across snarky) is "How can one who subscribes to subjective morality judge another person's actions as immoral?" which is NOT and Ad Hominem but rather a sound philosophical argument that I've yet to hear refuted satisfactorily.

The person posting as Back Alley seems to subscribe to subjective morality and yet borrows from the Christian worldview to claim that another's actions are immoral.

"Out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks"

"You will know them by their fruit"

"A good tree cannot bear bad fruit"

crossingchurchguy said...

Back Alley,

Your comments sadden me.

I am confident Pastor Kelly would give up those shoes immediately if God asked her to. She has given up a lot of things more valuable than expensive shoes for the good of others as God has willed.

I have witnessed both Dykstras give sacrificially time and time again - they really actually love people and care about them. God has asked them to give up a lot, but that doesn't mean He has asked them to give up more than they've given and thus they're disobedient.

Don't you own anything you're proud of that you *could* sell and give the money to the poor? If you haven't, is your reason superior to hers concerning those shoes?

Remember what Judas said about the expensive perfume used to wash Jesus' feet. It could've been sold to feed the poor. Jesus rebuked him, and Judas later sells Jesus for thirty pieces of silver.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Let's say my friend posts something about their great day with their grandparents on facebook and they thank Jesus for the day and their family. Meanwhile, my grandparents are dead. Does that mean that my friend thinks Jesus loves them more than me? Does that give me a right to be mad at my friend? Clearly God took my grandparents from me at a young age but did not do the same to my friend - could it not also be true that while God blesses all of His children with peace and joy he also blesses some with more material goods than others? John the Baptists was awfully poor and King David was awfully wealthy. I just can't see John criticizing David the way you're criticizing Pastor Kelly.

Katie said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Katie said...

I feel sorry for you "crossingchurchguy", I truly do.

Your leaders have hurt many deeply and have apologized, rightfully so, to a few.

Attacking TFTBA blogger isn't helping, you aren't going to enlighten anyone here...after all, we have the scars given by your misguided leaders. They are wrong, stop defending what you do not know nor understand.

Will continue to pray for all of you.

Back Alley said...

crossingchurchguy,

First, all morality is subjective. You can't even claim your bible as the authority due to interpretation differences. Care for an "Everything is permissible for me but not everything is beneficial" discussion? LOL!

Yes, I do judge Kelly Dykstra through a basic Christian lens as she claims to be a follower of Christ. I am saying that her actions do not follow the teachings of the Jesus she professes to serve.

I give a ton, dude. Ask the Dykstras (they know damn well who writes this blog). Do I give enough? Should I give more? Questions even this morally subjective heathen asks herself daily. Yeah, I find giving to be a big deal.

John the Baptist & King David? Judas and the woman washing Jesus' feet with perfume? Your analogies to this situation are ridiculous.

And your bible verse slamming with "fruit" verses means nothing to me.

Bottom line: Kelly parading around, and bragging about, insanely expensive shoes is tacky at best. Do you think anyone was helped by this display? It is all part of mega church manipulation. You see that the pastor is living large, even with gifts, and you then think "Well if I start tithing more, fasting more, praying more, ____ more - well then God will bless me too!" It's gambling with Jesus and it's gross.

crossingchurchguy said...

Katie,

I'm not attacking anyone. I'm defending those with whom this group is upset/angry with, which is not the same thing.

"stop defending what you do not know nor understand."

Please tell me how you can possibly know what I do or do not know. Please tell me how you know what I do or do not understand. Perhaps you should not make such statements when you do not know or understand.

"Will continue to pray for all of you."

Please do. Many of us continue to pray for the back alley group.

crossingchurchguy said...

Back Alley,

"all morality is subjective"

You're borrowing heavily from a worldview that subscribes to objective morality to judge anyone's words or actions as immoral. Even by your claim to judge professing Christians through a Christian lens (because lifestyles incompatible with Jesus' teaching deserves judgment) presupposes that hypocrisy is objectively wrong. If it is only subjectively wrong from your personal point of view (which you must maintain to stay consistent with what you've already said), then you must agree that your case is no better or worse than mine, and that our conversation is no more meaningful than an amoral argument over whether that couch over there is turquoise or teal.


"I find giving to be a big deal."

I am sincerely interested to know why. Indulge me?


"insanely expensive shoes"

You talk as though the lines between reasonable, expensive and insanely expensive shoes are more objective than morality is.

Is $1000 for shoes insanely expensive? Is $35.71 reasonable?

You or I paying $7 for a meal is as much more expensive than the meals Feed My Starving Children produces and sends to hungry kids. Ever been to Chipotle (or comparable) and said so on social media? Then the very same accusation could be as justifiably leveled against you.

A typical American household is wealthier than 93% of the world. Are you and I insanely rich? Is it fair for you (very likely in the top 10%) to criticize the Dykstras for being in the top 7%? That feels a little like a multi-millionaire with a high end Mercedes-Benz criticizing a billionaire for buying a Rolls Royce. I would roll my eyes at that, and I'm guessing you would too.

I find it interesting that when I asked if you owned anything you're proud of but could sell for the benefit of the poor that you responded with "I give a ton, dude". SO DO THE DYKSTRAS. If you're the giver you claim to be, is it OK for you to keep a few nice things? I'm a giver, but my car is worth $2200. Should I sell it and buy a $500 car? That extra $1700 could help a lot of people. $2200 seemed insanely expensive for a car when I was 16. Probably because I paid $300 for mine at the time.

I'm arguing some of the details of this issue because I believe that you have an innate (I would say God-given) sense of morality and that you're simply stating what you WANT to be true for yourself when you say morality is subjective. The arguments against one who actually believes morality is subjective are so overwhelming that the defender of subjectivity has to reduce themselves to incoherently vile statements in order to remain consistent with their worldview.

If morality is subjective then there are no arguments against murder or rape or any other terrible thing that are philosophically, logically or pragmatically superior to arguments FOR these things. This is true also for any alleged use/abuse or any other behavior from any church leaders.

Back Alley said...

"then you must agree that your case is no better or worse than mine"

Nope. Don't have to agree at all. At. All.

Indulge you as to why I find giving to be a big deal - so hard to fathom that a horrible, non-bible believing, Agnostic like me believes in giving? I give because I know what it's like to have nothing. I give because I have the ability to help. I give because I think it's right - not because I'm told by a book some men wrote that it's right - but because it's my own personal belief (yes, I'm sure you'll attempt to slam me with this - maybe you can even throw in a Pascal's Wager later to really make things fun!).

So the Dykstras give a ton? Such as giving up their $40K 401K for mega church building fund? Investing in your empire isn't giving.

The difference between me and Kelly Dysktra is this: I do not stand on a stage telling people they have to give anything, I do not tell people that "God" will bless them if they give a certain amount or above, I don't use my position of power for personal gain, I don't make my money off of other people's sacrifices.

Lets flip it around. When Kelly is flaunting her wealth all around what does this say to the person "doing everything biblically right" whose prayers are never answered? When Kelly claims God gives her things because he loves her, what does this tell the person with nothing about your God's love of them?

It's tacky. It's tasteless. It's cruel.

Peter said...

It's clear to me that you believe in objective morality despite your claims to the contrary.

You owe it to yourself to consider a very important question, then: if God judged you by the ten commandments, would you be found innocent or guilty?

I would be found guilty, and no argument about all of the good I've done in this life would change that. Try telling a judge that you give a lot and volunteer at non-profit organizations - if you've been charged with a crime, a good judge will see that justice is done. God is a good judge, and will see justice done.

That means big trouble for sinners on judgment day.

The good news, however, is that Jesus paid the fine for our crimes and this allows justice to be done AND for us to walk away free and forgiven. All you have to do is simply accept this; it's a free gift. If allow Him to be your forgiver and leader, He will. "Behold, I stand at the door and knock..."

It's my prayer that the reality of sin and God's justice would break your hardened heart and that the good news of God's perfect grace would mend that broken heart.

Whatever our disagreements, I care about you and your eternity.

Back Alley said...

Which "God" are you referring to? Historians have cataloged over 3700 supernatural beings, of which 2870 can be considered deities. It's basically a variation of Pascal's Wager, which is a false dichotomy. Who is to say you have the right god?

So your God decides what a "sin" is, creates beings that will ultimately not live up to his standards, says he loves them but must fry them in lava for eternity (if he's in control then he made this up) if they don't love him back and confess to being the exact sinful being he created. Yeah, makes sense. Super loving. Torturing people for eternity for a finite crime doesn't sound like justice to me.

My heart isn't hardened...it's free. I played the Christian game for decades and it feels SO good to be out of it.

Gee...maybe you should tithe more or fast for a week...then God might get my ass in line. ;-)

Back Alley said...

http://backalleythoughts.blogspot.com/2014/06/thank-you-crossing-church.html