At The Crossing church it's a little different: you are giving to God! You are told repeatedly that God needs 10% (minimum) back and if you give this you'll be blessed! You can visibly see that a multi-million dollar building is being built but the premise is this: bigger church - more people can fit - so more people get saved by Jesus. They say they are now being transparent with finances and I'll admit I haven't seen this yet.
I did see this: These were all the dates Kelly traveled this year. WOW!
1/25-1/28 - Alabama (funeral / family)
2/2 - St. Louis
2/12-2/16 - C3 - Dallas (conference)
3/18 - Haiti
3/19 - Miami (flying back from Haiti)
4/1 - IA (Easter with family)
5/16 - Seattle (conference)
5/28 - 6/13 - Extended Vacation
9/9 - Houston (Joel Osteen)
10/1 - Staff Retreat
10/17 - Brainerd
11/11-11/17 - Nashville (conference)
11/28 - IA (Thanksgiving with family)
12/2 - 12/6 - Liberty Church / PA, Ohio, Niagara Falls (9 state road trip)
12/25 - Off on another plane (assuming for Christmas with family)
Whether for a conference or family vacation that's a lot of money spent traveling. Tithe money. The Dykstra's are of course free to allocate their salaries in any way they choose. But I have to ask; how much was paid for by the church?
While pondering this I looked up my Paypay account to see my giving history to The Crossing. The attached picture is only two months worth of giving. Looking back I can see how they used manipulation and fear to persuade me, and so many others, to give. I gave as if I was paying off a mob boss (God). I never expected blessings - I was just looking for less pain - maybe some protection.
I sacrificed to give this much. This was WAY above 10%, this was savings, this was grocery money. I'm left to wonder how much went to a vacation, shoes or dining out. I can't lie about this; I'm seething just thinking about it.
10 comments:
Wow! Here’s me thinking I was the only one who’d had experiences like these!
You are spot on with regards to this tithe doctrine, it is simply used to extort money from church folk using the tool of fear and maybe a little greed. Some tithe out of fear while others out of the promise of a 100 fold return.
I understand your position perfectly and really wish the church wakes up and see that we do give to be blessed but we give because we are already blessed. And anything we give is acceptable unto God as long as it has been given willingly and cheerfully.
God bless!
Usually pastors travel to conferences on the dime of those who are receiving them. Pastors should also be free to take vacations, just like you do, I assume. For all you know they used their savings to travel, just like you do.
Unless you have a financial breakdown of expenses, you cannot use a travel itinerary or instagram photos alone to accuse them of spending too much of your tithe money on themselves or "manipulating you out of money". That's like me saying you spend too much of the money your boss gives you to pay your internet bills based on my knowledge of your extensive blogging, without getting to know you or your finances at all.
Well Joanna, I believe I stated quite clearly that they are free to spend their money as they wish: "Whether for a conference or family vacation that's a lot of money spent traveling. Tithe money. The Dykstra's are of course free to allocate their salaries in any way they choose. But I have to ask; how much was paid for by the church?"
Also, pastors only get to have their conferences paid if they are speaking there and not to simply attend.
I did not accuse; I asked questions. And if you're a Crossing attender then you should be asking these questions as well.
there's a preacher down in florida who i used to watch on the net, who puts seed buckets in front of the congregation. I googled his name and found out he was in trouble for credit problems a few years ago, recently his wife divorced him. Alarm bells always go off when I hear preachers asking for money.
Sadly they all play from the same playbook, Travis. (No, that playbook isn't the bible.)
My wife and I spent a combined 22 years in a cult called New Testament Christian Churches of America, Inc. This cult disguises itself as a holiness, soul winning, God fearing, pure church. The leaders of this group live in mansions while the majority of it's members live in poverty. Tithe is the vehicle that they use to obtain their wealth. The cult members believe that 10% of their money belongs to God and they are taught that if they do not pay tithe, (10% before taxes and deductions), to their pastor on time, (the same day it gets deposited into their account or they cash their check), that they will miss the rapture and spend eternity and the lake that burns with fire and brimstone. Of course, there is no accountability among the cult leadership and not a trace of transparency. There are a lot of man made rules and false doctrines that are preached and people feel like they are a part of the last move of God on planet earth.
We believe that our former cult needs to be exposed so that others can obtain information that might save them from a lot of pain and suffering in the future. Tithe is an Old Testament sacrament that involved the Jews providing mostly agricultural gifts that supported the Levitical Priesthood who did not have a possession among God's people. Nowhere in the bible will you ever find God commanding New Testament Christians to pay tithe and even the in the Old Testament tithe was not a mandate to the Gentiles. There is not one instance anywhere in the bible where a Gentile was ever required to pay tithe. Tithe is a false doctrine. It was carried over from the Old Testament because corrupt church leaders wanted to make a profit off of the people of God. In order for this to be accomplished successfully church members have to believe that God requires 10% of their income, so religious groups, spiritually abusive churches and cults twisted the scriptures to create New Testament tithe. Jesus never commanded anyone to pay tithe, and never profited off of the giving of others. The early church collected offerings for the poor saints, not for some religious huckster to buy a new Cadillac or a million dollar mansion. These offerings were not mandatory, nor were ultimatums of hell attached to them.
In our former group, (NTCC), you were not considered a brother in Christ if you did not pay your tithe and you were openly humiliated for not paying tithe in many cases. If you didn't pay tithe in a timely fashion or if you paid tithe on your net instead of gross pay they would say that you would be overweight when the rapture took place. The ntcc was very dogmatic and legalistic but any church that tries to lay a guilt trip on people to collect their hard earned money needs to get their nose in the book and find out what God really means by cheerful giving.
You do realize that the trip to Haiti was a mission's trip, right? And why are you including further training and conferences in this list? Every pastor should be up to date and involved in the community. Also, EVERY ONE, including pastors, need a break sometimes, and good for her for being there for her family. You should give her one before you are caught taking the speck out of your Brother's or Sister's eye.
Hey Kevan,
Her "mission trip" was to spend church money to surprise other church workers in Haiti for a day in and out. Who in hell got saved? Good use of tithe money? Never said they shouldn't take a break. I'm questioning how money is allocated. I'll repeat what I put on the post:
"Whether for a conference or family vacation that's a lot of money spent traveling. Tithe money. The Dykstra's are of course free to allocate their salaries in any way they choose. But I have to ask; how much was paid for by the church?"
Again....not a believer (anymore) so they are not my brother or sister!!
It's not giving if you care what happens to the gift after you have given it.
Well Joe...Should the church not have accountability for how money is spent? Or this is your special gift to God and everyone should let the Dykstra's spend it how they choose because they are God's chosen ones? What exactly is your point?
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